Who was the actual trombonist?












28















In Season 6, Episode 24 of TNG, Riker is playing a trombone, but who is the real trombonist?










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    28















    In Season 6, Episode 24 of TNG, Riker is playing a trombone, but who is the real trombonist?










    share|improve this question



























      28












      28








      28


      1






      In Season 6, Episode 24 of TNG, Riker is playing a trombone, but who is the real trombonist?










      share|improve this question
















      In Season 6, Episode 24 of TNG, Riker is playing a trombone, but who is the real trombonist?







      star-trek star-trek-tng






      share|improve this question















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      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Aug 3 '16 at 6:20









      Praxis

      88.8k35438603




      88.8k35438603










      asked Aug 3 '16 at 5:43









      Dmd DaglowDmd Daglow

      144123




      144123






















          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          43














          If this clip is the clip that you are thinking of:








          Then it is undoubtedly Bill Watrous. At the beginning of this clip, you can hear the tail end of Frakes statement, also corroborated here




          Frakes likes to talk about trombone playing, something he has done since he marched with the band at Penn State University. He played it on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but was often dubbed by someone else onscreen. "When Riker played badly, it was me, but when he was playing well, it was Bill Watrous," confesses Frakes. "My kid still thinks I'm good, though. He recognizes Star Trek when it's on, that's Daddy's show."




          It is definitely overdubbed. It is obvious that Frakes does actually play the trombone, because the technique he uses to hold the instrument is correct. The velocity that he moves the slide is appropriate too. However, the positions he uses are not correct for the pitches that are actually being played. Further, there are several times where the audio has very wide slide vibrato and yet the visual has the slide kept immobile.



          While this does not prove who the trombonist is, we can be reasonably assured that it is not Frakes playing trombone. For comparison, here are several clips of him playing trombone:


















          The tone quality is vastly different than in the clip in question, and while he's actually a decent player, is is different enough that in the case of the latter, it is Frakes playing, and in the former, someone who is a hardened professional doing the playing. If it were another professional it would be more difficult to tell who it was, but Bill has an exceedingly unique style of playing and timbre that is basically impossible to replicate without years and years of dedicated practicing.



          For comparison, here are some clips of Bill Watrous, you can compare the above tone quality with several clips above. It should become abundantly clear this is the artist overdubbing that particular scene:













          Given the words of Frakes, there are two options: It can be him playing, or it can be Bill Watrous. Because of the tone quality and manner of playing, it must be Watrous.



          As an aside, he appears to be playing a King 2B, 2B+, or "Jiggs" 2B trombone, which can be ascertained by some of the design features of the instrument, which include a King style bent lower bell brace and the smaller 7 3/8" bell diameter.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

            – kingledion
            Aug 3 '16 at 14:38






          • 1





            Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

            – Kevin_Kinsey
            Aug 3 '16 at 19:29











          • Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

            – Xavon_Wrentaile
            Aug 4 '16 at 1:01






          • 1





            That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 4 '16 at 15:10











          • The first video is unavailable.

            – Valorum
            3 mins ago



















          29














          Quite possibly Jonathan Frakes himself:






          Also, from this interview:




          I told [Roddenberry] about the trombone and the jazz, and then all of a sudden the character started to have a few of the qualities that I could relate to personally.




          So the fact that Riker plays the trombone is because Frakes plays it.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3





            I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

            – Beofett
            Aug 3 '16 at 17:21











          • +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 3 '16 at 18:38



















          -1














          Has anyone noticed that in TNG S5 E14 "Conundrum" riker starts to play the theme from Battle Star Galactica on trombone? I would assume he didnt get to far because of licensing...





          share








          New contributor




          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





















          • Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

            – Valorum
            4 mins ago











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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

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          3 Answers
          3






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes









          43














          If this clip is the clip that you are thinking of:








          Then it is undoubtedly Bill Watrous. At the beginning of this clip, you can hear the tail end of Frakes statement, also corroborated here




          Frakes likes to talk about trombone playing, something he has done since he marched with the band at Penn State University. He played it on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but was often dubbed by someone else onscreen. "When Riker played badly, it was me, but when he was playing well, it was Bill Watrous," confesses Frakes. "My kid still thinks I'm good, though. He recognizes Star Trek when it's on, that's Daddy's show."




          It is definitely overdubbed. It is obvious that Frakes does actually play the trombone, because the technique he uses to hold the instrument is correct. The velocity that he moves the slide is appropriate too. However, the positions he uses are not correct for the pitches that are actually being played. Further, there are several times where the audio has very wide slide vibrato and yet the visual has the slide kept immobile.



          While this does not prove who the trombonist is, we can be reasonably assured that it is not Frakes playing trombone. For comparison, here are several clips of him playing trombone:


















          The tone quality is vastly different than in the clip in question, and while he's actually a decent player, is is different enough that in the case of the latter, it is Frakes playing, and in the former, someone who is a hardened professional doing the playing. If it were another professional it would be more difficult to tell who it was, but Bill has an exceedingly unique style of playing and timbre that is basically impossible to replicate without years and years of dedicated practicing.



          For comparison, here are some clips of Bill Watrous, you can compare the above tone quality with several clips above. It should become abundantly clear this is the artist overdubbing that particular scene:













          Given the words of Frakes, there are two options: It can be him playing, or it can be Bill Watrous. Because of the tone quality and manner of playing, it must be Watrous.



          As an aside, he appears to be playing a King 2B, 2B+, or "Jiggs" 2B trombone, which can be ascertained by some of the design features of the instrument, which include a King style bent lower bell brace and the smaller 7 3/8" bell diameter.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

            – kingledion
            Aug 3 '16 at 14:38






          • 1





            Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

            – Kevin_Kinsey
            Aug 3 '16 at 19:29











          • Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

            – Xavon_Wrentaile
            Aug 4 '16 at 1:01






          • 1





            That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 4 '16 at 15:10











          • The first video is unavailable.

            – Valorum
            3 mins ago
















          43














          If this clip is the clip that you are thinking of:








          Then it is undoubtedly Bill Watrous. At the beginning of this clip, you can hear the tail end of Frakes statement, also corroborated here




          Frakes likes to talk about trombone playing, something he has done since he marched with the band at Penn State University. He played it on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but was often dubbed by someone else onscreen. "When Riker played badly, it was me, but when he was playing well, it was Bill Watrous," confesses Frakes. "My kid still thinks I'm good, though. He recognizes Star Trek when it's on, that's Daddy's show."




          It is definitely overdubbed. It is obvious that Frakes does actually play the trombone, because the technique he uses to hold the instrument is correct. The velocity that he moves the slide is appropriate too. However, the positions he uses are not correct for the pitches that are actually being played. Further, there are several times where the audio has very wide slide vibrato and yet the visual has the slide kept immobile.



          While this does not prove who the trombonist is, we can be reasonably assured that it is not Frakes playing trombone. For comparison, here are several clips of him playing trombone:


















          The tone quality is vastly different than in the clip in question, and while he's actually a decent player, is is different enough that in the case of the latter, it is Frakes playing, and in the former, someone who is a hardened professional doing the playing. If it were another professional it would be more difficult to tell who it was, but Bill has an exceedingly unique style of playing and timbre that is basically impossible to replicate without years and years of dedicated practicing.



          For comparison, here are some clips of Bill Watrous, you can compare the above tone quality with several clips above. It should become abundantly clear this is the artist overdubbing that particular scene:













          Given the words of Frakes, there are two options: It can be him playing, or it can be Bill Watrous. Because of the tone quality and manner of playing, it must be Watrous.



          As an aside, he appears to be playing a King 2B, 2B+, or "Jiggs" 2B trombone, which can be ascertained by some of the design features of the instrument, which include a King style bent lower bell brace and the smaller 7 3/8" bell diameter.






          share|improve this answer





















          • 5





            [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

            – kingledion
            Aug 3 '16 at 14:38






          • 1





            Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

            – Kevin_Kinsey
            Aug 3 '16 at 19:29











          • Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

            – Xavon_Wrentaile
            Aug 4 '16 at 1:01






          • 1





            That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 4 '16 at 15:10











          • The first video is unavailable.

            – Valorum
            3 mins ago














          43












          43








          43







          If this clip is the clip that you are thinking of:








          Then it is undoubtedly Bill Watrous. At the beginning of this clip, you can hear the tail end of Frakes statement, also corroborated here




          Frakes likes to talk about trombone playing, something he has done since he marched with the band at Penn State University. He played it on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but was often dubbed by someone else onscreen. "When Riker played badly, it was me, but when he was playing well, it was Bill Watrous," confesses Frakes. "My kid still thinks I'm good, though. He recognizes Star Trek when it's on, that's Daddy's show."




          It is definitely overdubbed. It is obvious that Frakes does actually play the trombone, because the technique he uses to hold the instrument is correct. The velocity that he moves the slide is appropriate too. However, the positions he uses are not correct for the pitches that are actually being played. Further, there are several times where the audio has very wide slide vibrato and yet the visual has the slide kept immobile.



          While this does not prove who the trombonist is, we can be reasonably assured that it is not Frakes playing trombone. For comparison, here are several clips of him playing trombone:


















          The tone quality is vastly different than in the clip in question, and while he's actually a decent player, is is different enough that in the case of the latter, it is Frakes playing, and in the former, someone who is a hardened professional doing the playing. If it were another professional it would be more difficult to tell who it was, but Bill has an exceedingly unique style of playing and timbre that is basically impossible to replicate without years and years of dedicated practicing.



          For comparison, here are some clips of Bill Watrous, you can compare the above tone quality with several clips above. It should become abundantly clear this is the artist overdubbing that particular scene:













          Given the words of Frakes, there are two options: It can be him playing, or it can be Bill Watrous. Because of the tone quality and manner of playing, it must be Watrous.



          As an aside, he appears to be playing a King 2B, 2B+, or "Jiggs" 2B trombone, which can be ascertained by some of the design features of the instrument, which include a King style bent lower bell brace and the smaller 7 3/8" bell diameter.






          share|improve this answer















          If this clip is the clip that you are thinking of:








          Then it is undoubtedly Bill Watrous. At the beginning of this clip, you can hear the tail end of Frakes statement, also corroborated here




          Frakes likes to talk about trombone playing, something he has done since he marched with the band at Penn State University. He played it on Star Trek: The Next Generation, but was often dubbed by someone else onscreen. "When Riker played badly, it was me, but when he was playing well, it was Bill Watrous," confesses Frakes. "My kid still thinks I'm good, though. He recognizes Star Trek when it's on, that's Daddy's show."




          It is definitely overdubbed. It is obvious that Frakes does actually play the trombone, because the technique he uses to hold the instrument is correct. The velocity that he moves the slide is appropriate too. However, the positions he uses are not correct for the pitches that are actually being played. Further, there are several times where the audio has very wide slide vibrato and yet the visual has the slide kept immobile.



          While this does not prove who the trombonist is, we can be reasonably assured that it is not Frakes playing trombone. For comparison, here are several clips of him playing trombone:


















          The tone quality is vastly different than in the clip in question, and while he's actually a decent player, is is different enough that in the case of the latter, it is Frakes playing, and in the former, someone who is a hardened professional doing the playing. If it were another professional it would be more difficult to tell who it was, but Bill has an exceedingly unique style of playing and timbre that is basically impossible to replicate without years and years of dedicated practicing.



          For comparison, here are some clips of Bill Watrous, you can compare the above tone quality with several clips above. It should become abundantly clear this is the artist overdubbing that particular scene:













          Given the words of Frakes, there are two options: It can be him playing, or it can be Bill Watrous. Because of the tone quality and manner of playing, it must be Watrous.



          As an aside, he appears to be playing a King 2B, 2B+, or "Jiggs" 2B trombone, which can be ascertained by some of the design features of the instrument, which include a King style bent lower bell brace and the smaller 7 3/8" bell diameter.























































          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited Aug 4 '16 at 15:09

























          answered Aug 3 '16 at 13:32









          mkingsbumkingsbu

          44639




          44639








          • 5





            [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

            – kingledion
            Aug 3 '16 at 14:38






          • 1





            Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

            – Kevin_Kinsey
            Aug 3 '16 at 19:29











          • Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

            – Xavon_Wrentaile
            Aug 4 '16 at 1:01






          • 1





            That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 4 '16 at 15:10











          • The first video is unavailable.

            – Valorum
            3 mins ago














          • 5





            [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

            – kingledion
            Aug 3 '16 at 14:38






          • 1





            Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

            – Kevin_Kinsey
            Aug 3 '16 at 19:29











          • Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

            – Xavon_Wrentaile
            Aug 4 '16 at 1:01






          • 1





            That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 4 '16 at 15:10











          • The first video is unavailable.

            – Valorum
            3 mins ago








          5




          5





          [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

          – kingledion
          Aug 3 '16 at 14:38





          [Monty Python Voice] How do you kneeeeeew so much about trombones?

          – kingledion
          Aug 3 '16 at 14:38




          1




          1





          Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

          – Kevin_Kinsey
          Aug 3 '16 at 19:29





          Years of practice, young Padawan. Good catch on the 2B, and if Frakes is into jazz, he at least knows exactly what horn he should be playing (unless he's into Bass Trombone). Nice answer ;-)

          – Kevin_Kinsey
          Aug 3 '16 at 19:29













          Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

          – Xavon_Wrentaile
          Aug 4 '16 at 1:01





          Just because the scene doesn't match the playing, does not mean it is not Frakes playing. He could just as easily have been the one who performed the piece for the overdubbing. The director could have told him (on camera) to make more exaggerated movements (since most viewers wouldn't know). Or they could have changed the piece between the filming and the dubbing.

          – Xavon_Wrentaile
          Aug 4 '16 at 1:01




          1




          1





          That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

          – mkingsbu
          Aug 4 '16 at 15:10





          That is true, it doesn't prove that it isn't Frakes. I edited the answer to indicate that doesn't aloen prove it, but provided more evidence that it was Watrous.

          – mkingsbu
          Aug 4 '16 at 15:10













          The first video is unavailable.

          – Valorum
          3 mins ago





          The first video is unavailable.

          – Valorum
          3 mins ago













          29














          Quite possibly Jonathan Frakes himself:






          Also, from this interview:




          I told [Roddenberry] about the trombone and the jazz, and then all of a sudden the character started to have a few of the qualities that I could relate to personally.




          So the fact that Riker plays the trombone is because Frakes plays it.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3





            I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

            – Beofett
            Aug 3 '16 at 17:21











          • +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 3 '16 at 18:38
















          29














          Quite possibly Jonathan Frakes himself:






          Also, from this interview:




          I told [Roddenberry] about the trombone and the jazz, and then all of a sudden the character started to have a few of the qualities that I could relate to personally.




          So the fact that Riker plays the trombone is because Frakes plays it.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 3





            I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

            – Beofett
            Aug 3 '16 at 17:21











          • +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 3 '16 at 18:38














          29












          29








          29







          Quite possibly Jonathan Frakes himself:






          Also, from this interview:




          I told [Roddenberry] about the trombone and the jazz, and then all of a sudden the character started to have a few of the qualities that I could relate to personally.




          So the fact that Riker plays the trombone is because Frakes plays it.






          share|improve this answer













          Quite possibly Jonathan Frakes himself:






          Also, from this interview:




          I told [Roddenberry] about the trombone and the jazz, and then all of a sudden the character started to have a few of the qualities that I could relate to personally.




          So the fact that Riker plays the trombone is because Frakes plays it.















          share|improve this answer












          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer










          answered Aug 3 '16 at 6:01









          steenberghsteenbergh

          3,35741332




          3,35741332








          • 3





            I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

            – Beofett
            Aug 3 '16 at 17:21











          • +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 3 '16 at 18:38














          • 3





            I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

            – Beofett
            Aug 3 '16 at 17:21











          • +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

            – mkingsbu
            Aug 3 '16 at 18:38








          3




          3





          I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

          – Beofett
          Aug 3 '16 at 17:21





          I had to downvote this. While Frakes does play trombone, speculating that he's the one playing in that episode solely on the fact that Frakes plays trombone is a shaky conclusion. Please see the other answer, as Frakes is not the only one who plays trombone in the show.

          – Beofett
          Aug 3 '16 at 17:21













          +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

          – mkingsbu
          Aug 3 '16 at 18:38





          +1 to Beofett. I've updated my answer to include a section about Frake's playing.

          – mkingsbu
          Aug 3 '16 at 18:38











          -1














          Has anyone noticed that in TNG S5 E14 "Conundrum" riker starts to play the theme from Battle Star Galactica on trombone? I would assume he didnt get to far because of licensing...





          share








          New contributor




          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





















          • Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

            – Valorum
            4 mins ago
















          -1














          Has anyone noticed that in TNG S5 E14 "Conundrum" riker starts to play the theme from Battle Star Galactica on trombone? I would assume he didnt get to far because of licensing...





          share








          New contributor




          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





















          • Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

            – Valorum
            4 mins ago














          -1












          -1








          -1







          Has anyone noticed that in TNG S5 E14 "Conundrum" riker starts to play the theme from Battle Star Galactica on trombone? I would assume he didnt get to far because of licensing...





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          Has anyone noticed that in TNG S5 E14 "Conundrum" riker starts to play the theme from Battle Star Galactica on trombone? I would assume he didnt get to far because of licensing...






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          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








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          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          answered 9 mins ago









          Chad RockChad Rock

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          New contributor





          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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          Chad Rock is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.













          • Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

            – Valorum
            4 mins ago



















          • Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

            – Valorum
            4 mins ago

















          Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

          – Valorum
          4 mins ago





          Sorta interesting, but not an answer to the question asked.

          – Valorum
          4 mins ago


















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