How to pronounce the unstressed е in прише́дшие?












2















Wikipedia says:





  • ...

  • /e/ has merged with /i/ (or /i/ and /ɨ/ if /ɨ/ is considered a phoneme): for instance, лиса́ (lisá) 'fox' and леса́ 'forests' are both pronounced /lʲiˈsa/, phonetically About this sound[lʲɪˈsa].

  • ...




So I expected прише́дшие to sound like [priʃjedʃii], not [priʃjedʃije]. In other words, the sound of the unstressed e here should boil from [je] to [i] as per the rule above. Yet, many singers (in fact, this is from the song called Журавли) actually don't pronounce that way; I hear [e] at the end of the word. Can you explain why?






произношение ударение фонетика vowel-reduction







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  • With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

    – Arhad
    2 hours ago






  • 1





    teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago


















2















Wikipedia says:





  • ...

  • /e/ has merged with /i/ (or /i/ and /ɨ/ if /ɨ/ is considered a phoneme): for instance, лиса́ (lisá) 'fox' and леса́ 'forests' are both pronounced /lʲiˈsa/, phonetically About this sound[lʲɪˈsa].

  • ...




So I expected прише́дшие to sound like [priʃjedʃii], not [priʃjedʃije]. In other words, the sound of the unstressed e here should boil from [je] to [i] as per the rule above. Yet, many singers (in fact, this is from the song called Журавли) actually don't pronounce that way; I hear [e] at the end of the word. Can you explain why?






произношение ударение фонетика vowel-reduction







share|improve this question









New contributor




b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.





















  • With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

    – Arhad
    2 hours ago






  • 1





    teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago
















2












2








2








Wikipedia says:





  • ...

  • /e/ has merged with /i/ (or /i/ and /ɨ/ if /ɨ/ is considered a phoneme): for instance, лиса́ (lisá) 'fox' and леса́ 'forests' are both pronounced /lʲiˈsa/, phonetically About this sound[lʲɪˈsa].

  • ...




So I expected прише́дшие to sound like [priʃjedʃii], not [priʃjedʃije]. In other words, the sound of the unstressed e here should boil from [je] to [i] as per the rule above. Yet, many singers (in fact, this is from the song called Журавли) actually don't pronounce that way; I hear [e] at the end of the word. Can you explain why?






произношение ударение фонетика vowel-reduction







share|improve this question









New contributor




b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.












Wikipedia says:





  • ...

  • /e/ has merged with /i/ (or /i/ and /ɨ/ if /ɨ/ is considered a phoneme): for instance, лиса́ (lisá) 'fox' and леса́ 'forests' are both pronounced /lʲiˈsa/, phonetically About this sound[lʲɪˈsa].

  • ...




So I expected прише́дшие to sound like [priʃjedʃii], not [priʃjedʃije]. In other words, the sound of the unstressed e here should boil from [je] to [i] as per the rule above. Yet, many singers (in fact, this is from the song called Журавли) actually don't pronounce that way; I hear [e] at the end of the word. Can you explain why?






произношение ударение фонетика vowel-reduction




произношение ударение фонетика vowel-reduction






share|improve this question









New contributor




b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.











share|improve this question









New contributor




b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.









share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited 39 mins ago







b1sub













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asked 3 hours ago









b1subb1sub

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b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






b1sub is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.













  • With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

    – Arhad
    2 hours ago






  • 1





    teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago





















  • With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

    – Arhad
    2 hours ago






  • 1





    teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago



















With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

– Arhad
2 hours ago





With the last syllable being stressed it looks like 1) a noun 2) borrowed from a foreign language, probably French.

– Arhad
2 hours ago




1




1





teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

– Баян Купи-ка
1 hour ago







teasing out pronunciation from songs is not the most reliable method, because singers tend to enunciate phonemes more clearly which defaults to the way they are written, especially singers from the Soviet era who generally had formal education as vocalists

– Баян Купи-ка
1 hour ago












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















2














Your expectation is justified, in speech прише́дшие is indeed pronounced like [priʃjedʃii], the final [е] gets reduced, пришеччыи



The transcription [priʃjedʃije] is also wrong about pronunсiation of [д] which here merges with [ш] to form geminated [чч] and thus is essentially not pronounced.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

    – b1sub
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

    – Abakan
    1 hour ago











  • true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago













  • I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

    – b1sub
    1 hour ago














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1 Answer
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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









2














Your expectation is justified, in speech прише́дшие is indeed pronounced like [priʃjedʃii], the final [е] gets reduced, пришеччыи



The transcription [priʃjedʃije] is also wrong about pronunсiation of [д] which here merges with [ш] to form geminated [чч] and thus is essentially not pronounced.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

    – b1sub
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

    – Abakan
    1 hour ago











  • true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago













  • I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

    – b1sub
    1 hour ago


















2














Your expectation is justified, in speech прише́дшие is indeed pronounced like [priʃjedʃii], the final [е] gets reduced, пришеччыи



The transcription [priʃjedʃije] is also wrong about pronunсiation of [д] which here merges with [ш] to form geminated [чч] and thus is essentially not pronounced.






share|improve this answer


























  • Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

    – b1sub
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

    – Abakan
    1 hour ago











  • true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago













  • I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

    – b1sub
    1 hour ago
















2












2








2







Your expectation is justified, in speech прише́дшие is indeed pronounced like [priʃjedʃii], the final [е] gets reduced, пришеччыи



The transcription [priʃjedʃije] is also wrong about pronunсiation of [д] which here merges with [ш] to form geminated [чч] and thus is essentially not pronounced.






share|improve this answer















Your expectation is justified, in speech прише́дшие is indeed pronounced like [priʃjedʃii], the final [е] gets reduced, пришеччыи



The transcription [priʃjedʃije] is also wrong about pronunсiation of [д] which here merges with [ш] to form geminated [чч] and thus is essentially not pronounced.







share|improve this answer














share|improve this answer



share|improve this answer








edited 2 hours ago

























answered 2 hours ago









Баян Купи-каБаян Купи-ка

15.9k11439




15.9k11439













  • Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

    – b1sub
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

    – Abakan
    1 hour ago











  • true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago













  • I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

    – b1sub
    1 hour ago





















  • Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

    – b1sub
    2 hours ago






  • 2





    I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

    – Abakan
    1 hour ago











  • true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

    – Баян Купи-ка
    1 hour ago













  • I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

    – b1sub
    1 hour ago



















Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

– b1sub
2 hours ago





Thanks for the clarification! Also, that germination rule is interesting. =) I should dig it further.

– b1sub
2 hours ago




2




2





I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

– Abakan
1 hour ago





I think it depends on the speaker's region of origin. [пришеччыи] sounds very unusual to me. My own pronunciation is similar to [пришэтшиэ].

– Abakan
1 hour ago













true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

– Баян Купи-ка
1 hour ago







true, since [e] is reduced into something amorphous i guess it's difficult to pinpoint how the resulting vowel exactly sounds, it could once sound closer to [ы] and then more like [э] the next time around with the same person

– Баян Купи-ка
1 hour ago















I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

– b1sub
1 hour ago







I assume the latter part(=germination) is Russian-specific, but I see none in Wikipedia's Russian Phonology page. Is there any link that you can cite or quote about that topic?

– b1sub
1 hour ago












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