Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?












12












$begingroup$


Context



The paladin in my game frequently uses his backhand to "correct" the ranger/assassin/warlock. The table enjoys these social interactions, as part of their bromance. It mostly happens out of combat, but we do still roll damage for the slaps. Since the paladin is not the smartest of the bunch this could potentially backfire if he hurts his ally too much (or at the wrong time), especially since the ranger is now vulnerable to radiant damage (due to homebrew events).



According to How much damage does a punch deal?, by default:




An unarmed strike deals 1 + Strength modifier damage.




Improved Divine Smite (IDS)




By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




Confusion



I read somewhere that an unarmed strike counts as a simple melee weapon and therefore allows you to add proficiency bonus to attack rolls if the (N)PC is proficient in simple melee weapons. But unfortunately I can't find the source for that statement. If this is true, it implies the IDS would trigger when hitting with unarmed strikes.



Research, with sources:





  • Is an Unarmed Strike considered a Weapon attack?




    Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).





  • For a basic unarmed strike, is only the proficiency bonus included in the attack roll, or is the Strength modifier also added?




    For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.





Question



Both accepted answers suggest that the slapping hand itself would not count as a weapon, and would therefore not trigger IDS, as the back of a hand is not a melee weapon. Although these answers hint towards my conclusion, they don't give a clear yes or no to my question.



Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?



In other words, is my current conclusion correct? Or am I misinterpreting the wording of the paladin feature?










share|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    12












    $begingroup$


    Context



    The paladin in my game frequently uses his backhand to "correct" the ranger/assassin/warlock. The table enjoys these social interactions, as part of their bromance. It mostly happens out of combat, but we do still roll damage for the slaps. Since the paladin is not the smartest of the bunch this could potentially backfire if he hurts his ally too much (or at the wrong time), especially since the ranger is now vulnerable to radiant damage (due to homebrew events).



    According to How much damage does a punch deal?, by default:




    An unarmed strike deals 1 + Strength modifier damage.




    Improved Divine Smite (IDS)




    By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




    Confusion



    I read somewhere that an unarmed strike counts as a simple melee weapon and therefore allows you to add proficiency bonus to attack rolls if the (N)PC is proficient in simple melee weapons. But unfortunately I can't find the source for that statement. If this is true, it implies the IDS would trigger when hitting with unarmed strikes.



    Research, with sources:





    • Is an Unarmed Strike considered a Weapon attack?




      Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).





    • For a basic unarmed strike, is only the proficiency bonus included in the attack roll, or is the Strength modifier also added?




      For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.





    Question



    Both accepted answers suggest that the slapping hand itself would not count as a weapon, and would therefore not trigger IDS, as the back of a hand is not a melee weapon. Although these answers hint towards my conclusion, they don't give a clear yes or no to my question.



    Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?



    In other words, is my current conclusion correct? Or am I misinterpreting the wording of the paladin feature?










    share|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      12












      12








      12





      $begingroup$


      Context



      The paladin in my game frequently uses his backhand to "correct" the ranger/assassin/warlock. The table enjoys these social interactions, as part of their bromance. It mostly happens out of combat, but we do still roll damage for the slaps. Since the paladin is not the smartest of the bunch this could potentially backfire if he hurts his ally too much (or at the wrong time), especially since the ranger is now vulnerable to radiant damage (due to homebrew events).



      According to How much damage does a punch deal?, by default:




      An unarmed strike deals 1 + Strength modifier damage.




      Improved Divine Smite (IDS)




      By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




      Confusion



      I read somewhere that an unarmed strike counts as a simple melee weapon and therefore allows you to add proficiency bonus to attack rolls if the (N)PC is proficient in simple melee weapons. But unfortunately I can't find the source for that statement. If this is true, it implies the IDS would trigger when hitting with unarmed strikes.



      Research, with sources:





      • Is an Unarmed Strike considered a Weapon attack?




        Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).





      • For a basic unarmed strike, is only the proficiency bonus included in the attack roll, or is the Strength modifier also added?




        For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.





      Question



      Both accepted answers suggest that the slapping hand itself would not count as a weapon, and would therefore not trigger IDS, as the back of a hand is not a melee weapon. Although these answers hint towards my conclusion, they don't give a clear yes or no to my question.



      Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?



      In other words, is my current conclusion correct? Or am I misinterpreting the wording of the paladin feature?










      share|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Context



      The paladin in my game frequently uses his backhand to "correct" the ranger/assassin/warlock. The table enjoys these social interactions, as part of their bromance. It mostly happens out of combat, but we do still roll damage for the slaps. Since the paladin is not the smartest of the bunch this could potentially backfire if he hurts his ally too much (or at the wrong time), especially since the ranger is now vulnerable to radiant damage (due to homebrew events).



      According to How much damage does a punch deal?, by default:




      An unarmed strike deals 1 + Strength modifier damage.




      Improved Divine Smite (IDS)




      By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




      Confusion



      I read somewhere that an unarmed strike counts as a simple melee weapon and therefore allows you to add proficiency bonus to attack rolls if the (N)PC is proficient in simple melee weapons. But unfortunately I can't find the source for that statement. If this is true, it implies the IDS would trigger when hitting with unarmed strikes.



      Research, with sources:





      • Is an Unarmed Strike considered a Weapon attack?




        Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons).





      • For a basic unarmed strike, is only the proficiency bonus included in the attack roll, or is the Strength modifier also added?




        For example, an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.





      Question



      Both accepted answers suggest that the slapping hand itself would not count as a weapon, and would therefore not trigger IDS, as the back of a hand is not a melee weapon. Although these answers hint towards my conclusion, they don't give a clear yes or no to my question.



      Does Improved Divine Smite trigger when a paladin makes an unarmed strike?



      In other words, is my current conclusion correct? Or am I misinterpreting the wording of the paladin feature?







      dnd-5e class-feature paladin unarmed-combat






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited 1 hour ago









      V2Blast

      23.4k375147




      23.4k375147










      asked 11 hours ago









      VadrukVadruk

      2,39911456




      2,39911456






















          2 Answers
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          13












          $begingroup$

          Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.



          (luckily for the other PC)



          Your conclusions are correct. As the rules state, an unarmed strike is not considered a weapon of any kind. According to the PHB rules on melee attacks (post-2016 errata):




          Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). (PHB 195)




          (That same errata also removed unarmed strikes from the weapons table in the PHB (p 149).)



          Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon:




          whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon




          Since Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon, it will not work with unarmed strikes.



          Note that normal Divine Smite does still work with unarmed strikes.



          Normal Divine Smite is written differently in a slight but significant way. It says:




          [...] when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack [...]




          Hitting a creature with a melee weapon explicitly requires a melee weapon. However, there are things that can do melee weapon attacks without being considered weapons. Unarmed strikes are one of those things.



          As the Sage Advice Compendium clarifies:




          an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.




          So you would be able to apply Divine Smite to an unarmed strike, but not Improved Divine Smite.



          You always add your proficiency bonus to your unarmed strikes



          The rules for melee attacks state:




          On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes. (PHB 195)




          This line was also added in the 2016 errata and may not appear in your printed PHB.



          So, no matter what proficiencies you have you always add your proficiency bonus to an unarmed strike attack roll. This does not affect any of the rulings on (Improved) Divine Strike though.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago



















          6












          $begingroup$

          Divite Smite works with an unarmed strike but Improved Divine Smite doesn't.



          Let's break down the reasons:



          Divine Smite



          As the author of the blog here writes:




          What does this mean? Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but
          not weapons.
          There’s been a bit of confusion as to whether this mean
          stunning strike works with unarmed strikes – it certainly does, the
          strike is still a melee weapon attack! (Stunning Strike says “When you
          hit another creature with a melee weapon attack”. You use a melee
          weapon attack to make unarmed strikes, so it still applies. The same
          applies to Divine Smite – you may use that with an unarmed strike
          .




          This is supported by the 2019 SA Compendium.



          Improved Divine Smite



          The wording of Improved Divine Smite states:




          By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




          As we've already seen:



          Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but not weapons.



          Hence you won't get the 1d8 radiant damage on every unarmed strike.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 2




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            Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
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            – KorvinStarmast
            11 hours ago








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago













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          13












          $begingroup$

          Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.



          (luckily for the other PC)



          Your conclusions are correct. As the rules state, an unarmed strike is not considered a weapon of any kind. According to the PHB rules on melee attacks (post-2016 errata):




          Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). (PHB 195)




          (That same errata also removed unarmed strikes from the weapons table in the PHB (p 149).)



          Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon:




          whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon




          Since Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon, it will not work with unarmed strikes.



          Note that normal Divine Smite does still work with unarmed strikes.



          Normal Divine Smite is written differently in a slight but significant way. It says:




          [...] when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack [...]




          Hitting a creature with a melee weapon explicitly requires a melee weapon. However, there are things that can do melee weapon attacks without being considered weapons. Unarmed strikes are one of those things.



          As the Sage Advice Compendium clarifies:




          an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.




          So you would be able to apply Divine Smite to an unarmed strike, but not Improved Divine Smite.



          You always add your proficiency bonus to your unarmed strikes



          The rules for melee attacks state:




          On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes. (PHB 195)




          This line was also added in the 2016 errata and may not appear in your printed PHB.



          So, no matter what proficiencies you have you always add your proficiency bonus to an unarmed strike attack roll. This does not affect any of the rulings on (Improved) Divine Strike though.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago
















          13












          $begingroup$

          Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.



          (luckily for the other PC)



          Your conclusions are correct. As the rules state, an unarmed strike is not considered a weapon of any kind. According to the PHB rules on melee attacks (post-2016 errata):




          Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). (PHB 195)




          (That same errata also removed unarmed strikes from the weapons table in the PHB (p 149).)



          Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon:




          whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon




          Since Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon, it will not work with unarmed strikes.



          Note that normal Divine Smite does still work with unarmed strikes.



          Normal Divine Smite is written differently in a slight but significant way. It says:




          [...] when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack [...]




          Hitting a creature with a melee weapon explicitly requires a melee weapon. However, there are things that can do melee weapon attacks without being considered weapons. Unarmed strikes are one of those things.



          As the Sage Advice Compendium clarifies:




          an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.




          So you would be able to apply Divine Smite to an unarmed strike, but not Improved Divine Smite.



          You always add your proficiency bonus to your unarmed strikes



          The rules for melee attacks state:




          On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes. (PHB 195)




          This line was also added in the 2016 errata and may not appear in your printed PHB.



          So, no matter what proficiencies you have you always add your proficiency bonus to an unarmed strike attack roll. This does not affect any of the rulings on (Improved) Divine Strike though.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago














          13












          13








          13





          $begingroup$

          Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.



          (luckily for the other PC)



          Your conclusions are correct. As the rules state, an unarmed strike is not considered a weapon of any kind. According to the PHB rules on melee attacks (post-2016 errata):




          Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). (PHB 195)




          (That same errata also removed unarmed strikes from the weapons table in the PHB (p 149).)



          Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon:




          whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon




          Since Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon, it will not work with unarmed strikes.



          Note that normal Divine Smite does still work with unarmed strikes.



          Normal Divine Smite is written differently in a slight but significant way. It says:




          [...] when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack [...]




          Hitting a creature with a melee weapon explicitly requires a melee weapon. However, there are things that can do melee weapon attacks without being considered weapons. Unarmed strikes are one of those things.



          As the Sage Advice Compendium clarifies:




          an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.




          So you would be able to apply Divine Smite to an unarmed strike, but not Improved Divine Smite.



          You always add your proficiency bonus to your unarmed strikes



          The rules for melee attacks state:




          On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes. (PHB 195)




          This line was also added in the 2016 errata and may not appear in your printed PHB.



          So, no matter what proficiencies you have you always add your proficiency bonus to an unarmed strike attack roll. This does not affect any of the rulings on (Improved) Divine Strike though.






          share|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Improved Divine Smite will not trigger on an unarmed strike.



          (luckily for the other PC)



          Your conclusions are correct. As the rules state, an unarmed strike is not considered a weapon of any kind. According to the PHB rules on melee attacks (post-2016 errata):




          Instead of using a weapon to make a melee weapon attack, you can use an unarmed strike: a punch, kick, head-butt, or similar forceful blow (none of which count as weapons). (PHB 195)




          (That same errata also removed unarmed strikes from the weapons table in the PHB (p 149).)



          Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon:




          whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon




          Since Improved Divine Smite requires a weapon, it will not work with unarmed strikes.



          Note that normal Divine Smite does still work with unarmed strikes.



          Normal Divine Smite is written differently in a slight but significant way. It says:




          [...] when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack [...]




          Hitting a creature with a melee weapon explicitly requires a melee weapon. However, there are things that can do melee weapon attacks without being considered weapons. Unarmed strikes are one of those things.



          As the Sage Advice Compendium clarifies:




          an unarmed strike counts as a melee weapon attack, even though the attacker’s body isn’t considered a weapon.




          So you would be able to apply Divine Smite to an unarmed strike, but not Improved Divine Smite.



          You always add your proficiency bonus to your unarmed strikes



          The rules for melee attacks state:




          On a hit, an unarmed strike deals bludgeoning damage equal to 1 + your Strength modifier. You are proficient with your unarmed strikes. (PHB 195)




          This line was also added in the 2016 errata and may not appear in your printed PHB.



          So, no matter what proficiencies you have you always add your proficiency bonus to an unarmed strike attack roll. This does not affect any of the rulings on (Improved) Divine Strike though.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 10 hours ago

























          answered 11 hours ago









          RubiksmooseRubiksmoose

          57.1k9274428




          57.1k9274428












          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago


















          • $begingroup$
            @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            10 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            10 hours ago












          • $begingroup$
            Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
            $endgroup$
            – Ben Barden
            9 hours ago










          • $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago
















          $begingroup$
          @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          10 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          @DavidCoffron OK. I added a line about that as well. I don't think there is any need to cite it directly. The answer is already quote-heavy enough and it is easy to paraphrase.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          10 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
          $endgroup$
          – Ben Barden
          10 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          So... Improved Divine Smite would work with a thrown dagger, but Divine Smite would not?
          $endgroup$
          – Ben Barden
          10 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          10 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          @BenBarden Though you could probably ask that as an entirely new question, the answer should be that you are correct. A thrown melee weapon is still a melee weapon, but it is being used to make a ranged attack. So DS would not work (not a melee attack) but IDS would (bc it uses a melee weapon). Just one of those weird rules things that I doubt they gave much thought to.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          10 hours ago














          $begingroup$
          Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
          $endgroup$
          – Ben Barden
          9 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Just seemed like it would be an interesting aside to add.
          $endgroup$
          – Ben Barden
          9 hours ago












          $begingroup$
          Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
          $endgroup$
          – V2Blast
          1 hour ago




          $begingroup$
          Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage."
          $endgroup$
          – V2Blast
          1 hour ago













          6












          $begingroup$

          Divite Smite works with an unarmed strike but Improved Divine Smite doesn't.



          Let's break down the reasons:



          Divine Smite



          As the author of the blog here writes:




          What does this mean? Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but
          not weapons.
          There’s been a bit of confusion as to whether this mean
          stunning strike works with unarmed strikes – it certainly does, the
          strike is still a melee weapon attack! (Stunning Strike says “When you
          hit another creature with a melee weapon attack”. You use a melee
          weapon attack to make unarmed strikes, so it still applies. The same
          applies to Divine Smite – you may use that with an unarmed strike
          .




          This is supported by the 2019 SA Compendium.



          Improved Divine Smite



          The wording of Improved Divine Smite states:




          By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




          As we've already seen:



          Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but not weapons.



          Hence you won't get the 1d8 radiant damage on every unarmed strike.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
            $endgroup$
            – KorvinStarmast
            11 hours ago








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago


















          6












          $begingroup$

          Divite Smite works with an unarmed strike but Improved Divine Smite doesn't.



          Let's break down the reasons:



          Divine Smite



          As the author of the blog here writes:




          What does this mean? Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but
          not weapons.
          There’s been a bit of confusion as to whether this mean
          stunning strike works with unarmed strikes – it certainly does, the
          strike is still a melee weapon attack! (Stunning Strike says “When you
          hit another creature with a melee weapon attack”. You use a melee
          weapon attack to make unarmed strikes, so it still applies. The same
          applies to Divine Smite – you may use that with an unarmed strike
          .




          This is supported by the 2019 SA Compendium.



          Improved Divine Smite



          The wording of Improved Divine Smite states:




          By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




          As we've already seen:



          Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but not weapons.



          Hence you won't get the 1d8 radiant damage on every unarmed strike.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$









          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
            $endgroup$
            – KorvinStarmast
            11 hours ago








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago
















          6












          6








          6





          $begingroup$

          Divite Smite works with an unarmed strike but Improved Divine Smite doesn't.



          Let's break down the reasons:



          Divine Smite



          As the author of the blog here writes:




          What does this mean? Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but
          not weapons.
          There’s been a bit of confusion as to whether this mean
          stunning strike works with unarmed strikes – it certainly does, the
          strike is still a melee weapon attack! (Stunning Strike says “When you
          hit another creature with a melee weapon attack”. You use a melee
          weapon attack to make unarmed strikes, so it still applies. The same
          applies to Divine Smite – you may use that with an unarmed strike
          .




          This is supported by the 2019 SA Compendium.



          Improved Divine Smite



          The wording of Improved Divine Smite states:




          By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




          As we've already seen:



          Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but not weapons.



          Hence you won't get the 1d8 radiant damage on every unarmed strike.






          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          $endgroup$



          Divite Smite works with an unarmed strike but Improved Divine Smite doesn't.



          Let's break down the reasons:



          Divine Smite



          As the author of the blog here writes:




          What does this mean? Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but
          not weapons.
          There’s been a bit of confusion as to whether this mean
          stunning strike works with unarmed strikes – it certainly does, the
          strike is still a melee weapon attack! (Stunning Strike says “When you
          hit another creature with a melee weapon attack”. You use a melee
          weapon attack to make unarmed strikes, so it still applies. The same
          applies to Divine Smite – you may use that with an unarmed strike
          .




          This is supported by the 2019 SA Compendium.



          Improved Divine Smite



          The wording of Improved Divine Smite states:




          By 11th level, whenever you hit a creature with a melee weapon, the creature takes an extra 1d8 radiant damage.




          As we've already seen:



          Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks but not weapons.



          Hence you won't get the 1d8 radiant damage on every unarmed strike.







          share|improve this answer










          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 11 hours ago









          Rubiksmoose

          57.1k9274428




          57.1k9274428






          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 11 hours ago









          Marz2292Marz2292

          571




          571




          New contributor




          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Marz2292 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
            $endgroup$
            – KorvinStarmast
            11 hours ago








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago
















          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
            $endgroup$
            – Rubiksmoose
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            $begingroup$
            Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
            $endgroup$
            – KorvinStarmast
            11 hours ago








          • 1




            $begingroup$
            May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
            $endgroup$
            – David Coffron
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            $begingroup$
            Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
            $endgroup$
            – V2Blast
            1 hour ago










          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          11 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Please note that your first quote is not anything from errata or official sources but it's just the person that owns that site's interpretation. It happens to be correct but there's really no reason to quote it here as opposed to writing your own take on it.
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          11 hours ago




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          11 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          Also welcome! Very nice first answer. I have made some edits to clean up the post and make it clearer. You can always edit your post to make it better. Hope to see you around!
          $endgroup$
          – Rubiksmoose
          11 hours ago




          2




          2




          $begingroup$
          Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
          $endgroup$
          – KorvinStarmast
          11 hours ago






          $begingroup$
          Another warm welcome to RPG.SE. Please take the tour and browse some of the other questions and answers about RPG's that you find of interest.
          $endgroup$
          – KorvinStarmast
          11 hours ago






          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
          $endgroup$
          – David Coffron
          10 hours ago




          $begingroup$
          May want to also reference the errata that changed this.
          $endgroup$
          – David Coffron
          10 hours ago




          1




          1




          $begingroup$
          Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
          $endgroup$
          – V2Blast
          1 hour ago






          $begingroup$
          Crawford has ruled that Divine Smite requires a weapon as well: "Unarmed strikes are melee weapon attacks. And they don't work with Divine Smite, which requires a weapon." It's because Divine Smite says, "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." I don't see anything in the Sage Advice Compendium that contradicts this.
          $endgroup$
          – V2Blast
          1 hour ago




















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