What's up with sex and pronouns in Ann Leckie's Provenance?
I'm currently half-way through Ann Leckie's novel Provenance, and am finding myself really confused by the pronouns and sexes. Can anyone explain what's going on? I'm getting the impression that maybe there are three sexes, a male, a female, and a neuter, which I guess would require some major biological changes in Homo sapiens...? It seems like a different setup than Ancillary Justice. Are there two different divisions of humanity, the Radchaai with one sex and the rest of humanity with three? It seems like there are distinctions that are important enough to be marked with the pronouns and other vocabulary, but I can't figure out what those distinctions would be. Are the pronouns like "e" and "eir" for a neuter gender? What is a "neman" or a "nuncle?" Do people choose their sexual identity when they become adults? If so, is this a physical (surgical?) choice, or just some kind of choice of what clothes to wear? Is the linguistic stuff just something about the culture of the protagonist, or is it language being used to describe some set of biological or social facts that are present in other cultures as well?
Related: Is everyone really female in Ancillary Justice or is the ancillary just unable to tell?
ann-leckie
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
add a comment |
I'm currently half-way through Ann Leckie's novel Provenance, and am finding myself really confused by the pronouns and sexes. Can anyone explain what's going on? I'm getting the impression that maybe there are three sexes, a male, a female, and a neuter, which I guess would require some major biological changes in Homo sapiens...? It seems like a different setup than Ancillary Justice. Are there two different divisions of humanity, the Radchaai with one sex and the rest of humanity with three? It seems like there are distinctions that are important enough to be marked with the pronouns and other vocabulary, but I can't figure out what those distinctions would be. Are the pronouns like "e" and "eir" for a neuter gender? What is a "neman" or a "nuncle?" Do people choose their sexual identity when they become adults? If so, is this a physical (surgical?) choice, or just some kind of choice of what clothes to wear? Is the linguistic stuff just something about the culture of the protagonist, or is it language being used to describe some set of biological or social facts that are present in other cultures as well?
Related: Is everyone really female in Ancillary Justice or is the ancillary just unable to tell?
ann-leckie
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
1
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
add a comment |
I'm currently half-way through Ann Leckie's novel Provenance, and am finding myself really confused by the pronouns and sexes. Can anyone explain what's going on? I'm getting the impression that maybe there are three sexes, a male, a female, and a neuter, which I guess would require some major biological changes in Homo sapiens...? It seems like a different setup than Ancillary Justice. Are there two different divisions of humanity, the Radchaai with one sex and the rest of humanity with three? It seems like there are distinctions that are important enough to be marked with the pronouns and other vocabulary, but I can't figure out what those distinctions would be. Are the pronouns like "e" and "eir" for a neuter gender? What is a "neman" or a "nuncle?" Do people choose their sexual identity when they become adults? If so, is this a physical (surgical?) choice, or just some kind of choice of what clothes to wear? Is the linguistic stuff just something about the culture of the protagonist, or is it language being used to describe some set of biological or social facts that are present in other cultures as well?
Related: Is everyone really female in Ancillary Justice or is the ancillary just unable to tell?
ann-leckie
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
I'm currently half-way through Ann Leckie's novel Provenance, and am finding myself really confused by the pronouns and sexes. Can anyone explain what's going on? I'm getting the impression that maybe there are three sexes, a male, a female, and a neuter, which I guess would require some major biological changes in Homo sapiens...? It seems like a different setup than Ancillary Justice. Are there two different divisions of humanity, the Radchaai with one sex and the rest of humanity with three? It seems like there are distinctions that are important enough to be marked with the pronouns and other vocabulary, but I can't figure out what those distinctions would be. Are the pronouns like "e" and "eir" for a neuter gender? What is a "neman" or a "nuncle?" Do people choose their sexual identity when they become adults? If so, is this a physical (surgical?) choice, or just some kind of choice of what clothes to wear? Is the linguistic stuff just something about the culture of the protagonist, or is it language being used to describe some set of biological or social facts that are present in other cultures as well?
Related: Is everyone really female in Ancillary Justice or is the ancillary just unable to tell?
ann-leckie
ann-leckie
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
asked 1 hour ago
Ben CrowellBen Crowell
1,0121022
1,0121022
1
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
add a comment |
1
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
1
1
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
add a comment |
0
active
oldest
votes
Your Answer
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "186"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: false,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: null,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f206439%2fwhats-up-with-sex-and-pronouns-in-ann-leckies-provenance%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
0
active
oldest
votes
0
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Thanks for contributing an answer to Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fscifi.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f206439%2fwhats-up-with-sex-and-pronouns-in-ann-leckies-provenance%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
I haven't read Ancillary Justice, so it's possible that there's some genetic tinkering going on, but the existence of three different pronouns need not have much to do with physical sex (organs and chromosomes and whatnot), but rather psychological gender. Someone can be agender or genderfluid and have XX or XY chromosomes, for instance, and might prefer to go by a neuter pronoun.
– Adamant
1 hour ago
Besides which, it would be easy enough to define sex in a way that would produce more than two sexes or a even a continuum without any actual changes. For instance, is XXX the same sex as XX? By convention it is, but that's mainly to match definitions created before DNA imaging.
– Adamant
1 hour ago