How can I frame human sacrifice as an honor without marketing it to the disadvantaged?
All living things possess a form of spiritual energy called reishi. This energy is used by humans to fuel their magical spells, but is also necessary for life to continue. There is a ritual that removes the reishi from an individual through a human sacrifice. The reishi is drawn from the body and transferred to special containers made to store spirit energy, while the victim's soul passes on.
In some socities, this ritual is reserved for ciminals, slaves or people captured in war. In others, it is a voluntary honor to give your life in order for your energy to be put to future use, and families of the victim are held in high esteem or receive some compensation. My problem with this system is that it can be taken advantage of by the higher standing society members who are likely to promote this to the destitute. People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution. Ultimately, it would devolve similarly to indulgences, and seen as a get out of jail free card and remove any integrity of the practice?
Human sacrifice should be an act of honor and not of desperation. I want to design a way that prevents this from being marketed to the disadvantaged, but keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
society religion social-norms
|
show 1 more comment
All living things possess a form of spiritual energy called reishi. This energy is used by humans to fuel their magical spells, but is also necessary for life to continue. There is a ritual that removes the reishi from an individual through a human sacrifice. The reishi is drawn from the body and transferred to special containers made to store spirit energy, while the victim's soul passes on.
In some socities, this ritual is reserved for ciminals, slaves or people captured in war. In others, it is a voluntary honor to give your life in order for your energy to be put to future use, and families of the victim are held in high esteem or receive some compensation. My problem with this system is that it can be taken advantage of by the higher standing society members who are likely to promote this to the destitute. People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution. Ultimately, it would devolve similarly to indulgences, and seen as a get out of jail free card and remove any integrity of the practice?
Human sacrifice should be an act of honor and not of desperation. I want to design a way that prevents this from being marketed to the disadvantaged, but keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
society religion social-norms
2
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
1
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
All living things possess a form of spiritual energy called reishi. This energy is used by humans to fuel their magical spells, but is also necessary for life to continue. There is a ritual that removes the reishi from an individual through a human sacrifice. The reishi is drawn from the body and transferred to special containers made to store spirit energy, while the victim's soul passes on.
In some socities, this ritual is reserved for ciminals, slaves or people captured in war. In others, it is a voluntary honor to give your life in order for your energy to be put to future use, and families of the victim are held in high esteem or receive some compensation. My problem with this system is that it can be taken advantage of by the higher standing society members who are likely to promote this to the destitute. People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution. Ultimately, it would devolve similarly to indulgences, and seen as a get out of jail free card and remove any integrity of the practice?
Human sacrifice should be an act of honor and not of desperation. I want to design a way that prevents this from being marketed to the disadvantaged, but keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
society religion social-norms
All living things possess a form of spiritual energy called reishi. This energy is used by humans to fuel their magical spells, but is also necessary for life to continue. There is a ritual that removes the reishi from an individual through a human sacrifice. The reishi is drawn from the body and transferred to special containers made to store spirit energy, while the victim's soul passes on.
In some socities, this ritual is reserved for ciminals, slaves or people captured in war. In others, it is a voluntary honor to give your life in order for your energy to be put to future use, and families of the victim are held in high esteem or receive some compensation. My problem with this system is that it can be taken advantage of by the higher standing society members who are likely to promote this to the destitute. People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution. Ultimately, it would devolve similarly to indulgences, and seen as a get out of jail free card and remove any integrity of the practice?
Human sacrifice should be an act of honor and not of desperation. I want to design a way that prevents this from being marketed to the disadvantaged, but keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
society religion social-norms
society religion social-norms
edited 36 mins ago
Incognito
asked 5 hours ago
IncognitoIncognito
5,79465187
5,79465187
2
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
1
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
2
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
1
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago
2
2
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
1
1
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago
|
show 1 more comment
10 Answers
10
active
oldest
votes
Your description of mana usage looks a lot like organ donation.
Organ donation is a very sensitive topic in the real world. People are very touchy about their flesh even after they'll never need it anymore. Some find the prospect of giving or receiving gross. Some have religious views that see it as a grave sin. Some think that allowing it freely would create a flesh market where people would be murdered for their transplantables. Whatevere, public opinion causes it to be heavily regulated everywhere.
Due to the above, there is always a shortage of reusable human flesh. Which (pretend to be surprised now) leads to the existence of black markets. Depending on where you are, a kidney goes for anywhere between a few hundred dollars to a couple hundred thousand.
Since mana is as intimate a thing as flesh in your world, just run the same beliefs, tastes and regulations and you get a similar effect.
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
The Mesoamerican ballgame was played by the Mayans in pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America, and ended in human sacrifice.
Last year, when I was visiting a site containing an ancient ballcourt, the guide, a Mayan himself, told us that the team captain would be decapitated at the end of the game. He then explained that it was the captain of the winning team that received this honour.
Perhaps you could create a similar mechanism. It doesn't have to be a physical sport, but does need to be highly competitive.
Achieving the "honour" will require a lot of dedication and hard work for someone to acquire the skills and to work their way to the top. Anyone capable of this would almost certainly be just as capable of working their way out of destitution by other means, so the people involved really would have a choice and not see it as the only way out.
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The quantity and quality of the Reishi produced by each individual is directly related to their achievements in life.
A victorious commander will surely have more and better Reishi than a disertor, so the commander will be either be offered as sacrifice from his part or from the enemy, if captured.
Also for criminals, achieving excellence in the field results in the production of more and better Reishi.
In all cases, the less successful a person is, the less attractive is the produced Reishi, directly impacting the outcome of the rituals where the Reishi is used.
Being picked as sacrifice is a mark of success, think of it like the equivalent of a Nobel prize.
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Put a practical limit on the number of times someone can be the recipient.
That will mean that even the greediest creditor is not practically able to consistently oppress the destitute. While it could occasionally happen, it is a limited practice in the long run. Those with higher Reishi are going to be preferential targets for this, and they're not likely to be those bumping along the bottom of society unable to pay their debts. On the other hand, if you lend money to a chief and he can't pay his debts...
add a comment |
Do you think You're the best?
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Does your taste in music, art and conversation is hard to match?
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Why use and wait for regular removal system to call you. Be the Captain of your life, take your next life in your hands. Plan what's best for YOU.
Sell the procedure as good enough only or the best with the prize that can't be matched. You don't have enough follower in "magixgram" or followers on "MY Tube"? You are not good enough. Grow old and sick while those better than you will play in their new bodies.
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add a comment |
I want to design a way that... keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
The donors must be willing.
They have to do something to indicate their willingness/agreement as part of the ritual or the ritual fails.
People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution.
Let society prevent this, not rules.
Allow it to happen - there are always people who are rule breakers / evil, you world is more believable if you allow it - more 'false' feeling if you prevent it.
add a comment |
What kind of world and magic is it?
The practitioners need not market it toward the disadvantaged at all. Social pressure may create a harsh reality on its own, just at it does in the real world. However, this harshness may not be endorsed or encouraged by the magicians themselves. Perhaps they believe all sacrifices are purely voluntary, or perhaps they suspect otherwise but continue regardless.
If you can write about a world where this harshness exists, it can add some poignancy to your work. If you do not want to do this, then you must nip the harshness in the bud. But how?
They cope with the harsh reality just as we do. If there is an incentive to pressure poor, sick, and disabled people to volunteer, then it is reasonable for the organization performing the rituals to verify the willingness of each volunteer. They could have moral or political reasons for doing so. The verification could involve standard interrogation techniques, or it could involve magic.
Reality simply does not work that way. The ritual may require a willing participant; coercion or emotional turmoil will cause it to fail. Whether the magicians know in advance that it will fail is also up to you. If they cannot tell for sure, then it may be in their best interests to weed out not-so-willing volunteers---especially if the ritual is costly in any way: personal effort, monetary cost, politics, etc.
It is blasphemous. Donating reishi is more than an honor. It is an act that touches upon the divine. Maybe in truth, or maybe only in the minds of the faithful. Regardless of whether it is truly a divine rite, there is a strong taboo against sullying the practice---especially with selfish motives.
add a comment |
Make it a hard ritual to perform
What you don't want is for this ritual to be banal, so all you need is for it to be a difficult thing to accomplish.
Here's a list of simple things that could make this ritual costly and or time consuming:
- It needs a few very powerful mages to be present (like the very elders of the village/kingdom in question);
- Exotic materials (very rare stuff) must be used;
- Specific time dates (eclipses, moon phases, planet alignment, etc);
- True compliance - meaning the person can't be forced to do it (IMO, giving your life to get out of debt is not valid. One must want this almost as a dream come true);
You can elaborate even better reasons than these. But the point is that the sheer amout of time and resources needed make it so that you can't really do this all the time.
If every single time counts big time, there will be anticipation for such a ritual and great interest from the general population. And that's how you build tradition, honor, etc.
add a comment |
Make it like military service
In many cultures people willingly sacrifice themselves (or put their lives on the line) as an honor and duty to serving their country. While to many joining the military is a way to seek a better station or circumstances in life, many also join for duty and honor.
If folks need to donate their reishi for a war or for an end to a drought or some other shared goal, even the wealthy or powerful or famous can feel this desire to sacrifice for the greater good, think Pat Tillman.
In some societies the rulers were almost required to join the military, think England, in order to show that they weren't above doing what they asked of their countrymen.
add a comment |
Pay reishi in a different currency and require different accounting for it. The real world analogy is food stamps. Cash you can spend on anything, but reishi must be spent on limited needs of the family, and have government accounting. The person who receives food stamps can then go to the govt to get real cash.
add a comment |
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10 Answers
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Your description of mana usage looks a lot like organ donation.
Organ donation is a very sensitive topic in the real world. People are very touchy about their flesh even after they'll never need it anymore. Some find the prospect of giving or receiving gross. Some have religious views that see it as a grave sin. Some think that allowing it freely would create a flesh market where people would be murdered for their transplantables. Whatevere, public opinion causes it to be heavily regulated everywhere.
Due to the above, there is always a shortage of reusable human flesh. Which (pretend to be surprised now) leads to the existence of black markets. Depending on where you are, a kidney goes for anywhere between a few hundred dollars to a couple hundred thousand.
Since mana is as intimate a thing as flesh in your world, just run the same beliefs, tastes and regulations and you get a similar effect.
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your description of mana usage looks a lot like organ donation.
Organ donation is a very sensitive topic in the real world. People are very touchy about their flesh even after they'll never need it anymore. Some find the prospect of giving or receiving gross. Some have religious views that see it as a grave sin. Some think that allowing it freely would create a flesh market where people would be murdered for their transplantables. Whatevere, public opinion causes it to be heavily regulated everywhere.
Due to the above, there is always a shortage of reusable human flesh. Which (pretend to be surprised now) leads to the existence of black markets. Depending on where you are, a kidney goes for anywhere between a few hundred dollars to a couple hundred thousand.
Since mana is as intimate a thing as flesh in your world, just run the same beliefs, tastes and regulations and you get a similar effect.
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
Your description of mana usage looks a lot like organ donation.
Organ donation is a very sensitive topic in the real world. People are very touchy about their flesh even after they'll never need it anymore. Some find the prospect of giving or receiving gross. Some have religious views that see it as a grave sin. Some think that allowing it freely would create a flesh market where people would be murdered for their transplantables. Whatevere, public opinion causes it to be heavily regulated everywhere.
Due to the above, there is always a shortage of reusable human flesh. Which (pretend to be surprised now) leads to the existence of black markets. Depending on where you are, a kidney goes for anywhere between a few hundred dollars to a couple hundred thousand.
Since mana is as intimate a thing as flesh in your world, just run the same beliefs, tastes and regulations and you get a similar effect.
Your description of mana usage looks a lot like organ donation.
Organ donation is a very sensitive topic in the real world. People are very touchy about their flesh even after they'll never need it anymore. Some find the prospect of giving or receiving gross. Some have religious views that see it as a grave sin. Some think that allowing it freely would create a flesh market where people would be murdered for their transplantables. Whatevere, public opinion causes it to be heavily regulated everywhere.
Due to the above, there is always a shortage of reusable human flesh. Which (pretend to be surprised now) leads to the existence of black markets. Depending on where you are, a kidney goes for anywhere between a few hundred dollars to a couple hundred thousand.
Since mana is as intimate a thing as flesh in your world, just run the same beliefs, tastes and regulations and you get a similar effect.
edited 1 hour ago
answered 5 hours ago
RenanRenan
45.2k11104228
45.2k11104228
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
The question asks about a spiritual essence here called "reishi". "Mana" is, of course, a Polynesian concept about a source for magic. This is despite it's being appropriated and abused conceptually by mere fantasy writers.
– a4android
5 hours ago
1
1
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
@a4android wow, I never actually thought about the origin of the term "mana". I vaguely associated it with "manna" - the food God gave to the people. So, sort of like sustenance. I didn't really think of it that much... At any rate - "mana" being abused conceptually is not a singular occurence - lots of terms are - "necromancy" is about using the dead for divination, "pyromancy" is about using fire for divination. So, magicians studying those should be seers at best, not controlling the element. Yet, nowadays they don't - language evolves and changes like that.
– vlaz
4 hours ago
2
2
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
As you already touched on religious and or thinking it's gross it's worth noting that in some places (Switzerland for example) for someone to be a valid organ donor he needs to be alive during the procedure. So basically, if you want to donate your organs in these places, you know exactly when you'll die and that it won't be natural. Which a lot don't want
– MindSwipe
4 hours ago
4
4
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
@a4android half of the current English vocbulary is made of abused stuff from other languages. Did you know that orca means a kind of (non-marine) demon and that they were supposed to be called whale killers instead of killer whales?
– Renan
4 hours ago
1
1
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
I'm not sure how this answers the question. It seems like a reasonable comparison between the proposed system and organ donation... but my impression is that, as you mentioned there is still the black market option and it's still the "disadvantaged" that are doing the donating.
– Kamil Drakari
2 hours ago
|
show 3 more comments
The Mesoamerican ballgame was played by the Mayans in pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America, and ended in human sacrifice.
Last year, when I was visiting a site containing an ancient ballcourt, the guide, a Mayan himself, told us that the team captain would be decapitated at the end of the game. He then explained that it was the captain of the winning team that received this honour.
Perhaps you could create a similar mechanism. It doesn't have to be a physical sport, but does need to be highly competitive.
Achieving the "honour" will require a lot of dedication and hard work for someone to acquire the skills and to work their way to the top. Anyone capable of this would almost certainly be just as capable of working their way out of destitution by other means, so the people involved really would have a choice and not see it as the only way out.
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The Mesoamerican ballgame was played by the Mayans in pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America, and ended in human sacrifice.
Last year, when I was visiting a site containing an ancient ballcourt, the guide, a Mayan himself, told us that the team captain would be decapitated at the end of the game. He then explained that it was the captain of the winning team that received this honour.
Perhaps you could create a similar mechanism. It doesn't have to be a physical sport, but does need to be highly competitive.
Achieving the "honour" will require a lot of dedication and hard work for someone to acquire the skills and to work their way to the top. Anyone capable of this would almost certainly be just as capable of working their way out of destitution by other means, so the people involved really would have a choice and not see it as the only way out.
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The Mesoamerican ballgame was played by the Mayans in pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America, and ended in human sacrifice.
Last year, when I was visiting a site containing an ancient ballcourt, the guide, a Mayan himself, told us that the team captain would be decapitated at the end of the game. He then explained that it was the captain of the winning team that received this honour.
Perhaps you could create a similar mechanism. It doesn't have to be a physical sport, but does need to be highly competitive.
Achieving the "honour" will require a lot of dedication and hard work for someone to acquire the skills and to work their way to the top. Anyone capable of this would almost certainly be just as capable of working their way out of destitution by other means, so the people involved really would have a choice and not see it as the only way out.
The Mesoamerican ballgame was played by the Mayans in pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America, and ended in human sacrifice.
Last year, when I was visiting a site containing an ancient ballcourt, the guide, a Mayan himself, told us that the team captain would be decapitated at the end of the game. He then explained that it was the captain of the winning team that received this honour.
Perhaps you could create a similar mechanism. It doesn't have to be a physical sport, but does need to be highly competitive.
Achieving the "honour" will require a lot of dedication and hard work for someone to acquire the skills and to work their way to the top. Anyone capable of this would almost certainly be just as capable of working their way out of destitution by other means, so the people involved really would have a choice and not see it as the only way out.
answered 3 hours ago
Ray ButterworthRay Butterworth
1614
1614
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
add a comment |
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
3
3
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
As an added concept: the skills and training required to get good at the game may also be seen to "refine" or "enhance" the reishi in some way - so the winning team are considered the best quality of sacrifice. (Whether or not it actually does is secondary...)
– Chronocidal
2 hours ago
add a comment |
The quantity and quality of the Reishi produced by each individual is directly related to their achievements in life.
A victorious commander will surely have more and better Reishi than a disertor, so the commander will be either be offered as sacrifice from his part or from the enemy, if captured.
Also for criminals, achieving excellence in the field results in the production of more and better Reishi.
In all cases, the less successful a person is, the less attractive is the produced Reishi, directly impacting the outcome of the rituals where the Reishi is used.
Being picked as sacrifice is a mark of success, think of it like the equivalent of a Nobel prize.
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The quantity and quality of the Reishi produced by each individual is directly related to their achievements in life.
A victorious commander will surely have more and better Reishi than a disertor, so the commander will be either be offered as sacrifice from his part or from the enemy, if captured.
Also for criminals, achieving excellence in the field results in the production of more and better Reishi.
In all cases, the less successful a person is, the less attractive is the produced Reishi, directly impacting the outcome of the rituals where the Reishi is used.
Being picked as sacrifice is a mark of success, think of it like the equivalent of a Nobel prize.
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
add a comment |
The quantity and quality of the Reishi produced by each individual is directly related to their achievements in life.
A victorious commander will surely have more and better Reishi than a disertor, so the commander will be either be offered as sacrifice from his part or from the enemy, if captured.
Also for criminals, achieving excellence in the field results in the production of more and better Reishi.
In all cases, the less successful a person is, the less attractive is the produced Reishi, directly impacting the outcome of the rituals where the Reishi is used.
Being picked as sacrifice is a mark of success, think of it like the equivalent of a Nobel prize.
The quantity and quality of the Reishi produced by each individual is directly related to their achievements in life.
A victorious commander will surely have more and better Reishi than a disertor, so the commander will be either be offered as sacrifice from his part or from the enemy, if captured.
Also for criminals, achieving excellence in the field results in the production of more and better Reishi.
In all cases, the less successful a person is, the less attractive is the produced Reishi, directly impacting the outcome of the rituals where the Reishi is used.
Being picked as sacrifice is a mark of success, think of it like the equivalent of a Nobel prize.
edited 5 hours ago
answered 5 hours ago
L.Dutch♦L.Dutch
79.3k26189387
79.3k26189387
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
add a comment |
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
That's close to how the Aztec sacrifices operated. Or at least some of them - a lot of slaves would be sacrificed (I imagine they wouldn't have "reishi" in fictional terms) but some were selected because they were supposedly favoured by the gods - strong, beautiful, and healthy (high "reishi" content).
– vlaz
5 hours ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
To add to this: It doesn't necessarily have to be true that better people produce better reishi, it just has to be the case that buyers of reishi think so. There could be a purity culture about it. In our world people used to think a doctor's hands were always clean because of his status in society (despite their hands actually being unclean from touching sick people and never washing them). In this world people could believe that destitute people have unclean reishi (despite their reishi actually being the same as anyone else's).
– Jared K
1 hour ago
add a comment |
Put a practical limit on the number of times someone can be the recipient.
That will mean that even the greediest creditor is not practically able to consistently oppress the destitute. While it could occasionally happen, it is a limited practice in the long run. Those with higher Reishi are going to be preferential targets for this, and they're not likely to be those bumping along the bottom of society unable to pay their debts. On the other hand, if you lend money to a chief and he can't pay his debts...
add a comment |
Put a practical limit on the number of times someone can be the recipient.
That will mean that even the greediest creditor is not practically able to consistently oppress the destitute. While it could occasionally happen, it is a limited practice in the long run. Those with higher Reishi are going to be preferential targets for this, and they're not likely to be those bumping along the bottom of society unable to pay their debts. On the other hand, if you lend money to a chief and he can't pay his debts...
add a comment |
Put a practical limit on the number of times someone can be the recipient.
That will mean that even the greediest creditor is not practically able to consistently oppress the destitute. While it could occasionally happen, it is a limited practice in the long run. Those with higher Reishi are going to be preferential targets for this, and they're not likely to be those bumping along the bottom of society unable to pay their debts. On the other hand, if you lend money to a chief and he can't pay his debts...
Put a practical limit on the number of times someone can be the recipient.
That will mean that even the greediest creditor is not practically able to consistently oppress the destitute. While it could occasionally happen, it is a limited practice in the long run. Those with higher Reishi are going to be preferential targets for this, and they're not likely to be those bumping along the bottom of society unable to pay their debts. On the other hand, if you lend money to a chief and he can't pay his debts...
answered 5 hours ago
SeparatrixSeparatrix
79k31186308
79k31186308
add a comment |
add a comment |
Do you think You're the best?
Do you feel you only deserve the best food, finest women, man, heck even alligators?
Does your taste in music, art and conversation is hard to match?
Well then, maybe You're the one to try our tailored to your specific needs Magic Removal Life System. Come on down and we will check FOR FREE is you are good enough for us. Our Magic system is not some mere magic removal. We guarantee your rebirth as a new-born of gender of your choosing in two weeks after your MAGIC PARTY. Why grow old? Why wait for sickness to get you? If you have enough honour points we may consider you in our Celebration that takes place one once a year.
Why use and wait for regular removal system to call you. Be the Captain of your life, take your next life in your hands. Plan what's best for YOU.
Sell the procedure as good enough only or the best with the prize that can't be matched. You don't have enough follower in "magixgram" or followers on "MY Tube"? You are not good enough. Grow old and sick while those better than you will play in their new bodies.
actual new bodies not included, soul transfer is procedure with high risk, newborn people don't speak and they don't remember their previous life. don't ask your doctor of family for consultation, they will only drag you away from this idea because they envy you, you good looking, lucky bastard you
add a comment |
Do you think You're the best?
Do you feel you only deserve the best food, finest women, man, heck even alligators?
Does your taste in music, art and conversation is hard to match?
Well then, maybe You're the one to try our tailored to your specific needs Magic Removal Life System. Come on down and we will check FOR FREE is you are good enough for us. Our Magic system is not some mere magic removal. We guarantee your rebirth as a new-born of gender of your choosing in two weeks after your MAGIC PARTY. Why grow old? Why wait for sickness to get you? If you have enough honour points we may consider you in our Celebration that takes place one once a year.
Why use and wait for regular removal system to call you. Be the Captain of your life, take your next life in your hands. Plan what's best for YOU.
Sell the procedure as good enough only or the best with the prize that can't be matched. You don't have enough follower in "magixgram" or followers on "MY Tube"? You are not good enough. Grow old and sick while those better than you will play in their new bodies.
actual new bodies not included, soul transfer is procedure with high risk, newborn people don't speak and they don't remember their previous life. don't ask your doctor of family for consultation, they will only drag you away from this idea because they envy you, you good looking, lucky bastard you
add a comment |
Do you think You're the best?
Do you feel you only deserve the best food, finest women, man, heck even alligators?
Does your taste in music, art and conversation is hard to match?
Well then, maybe You're the one to try our tailored to your specific needs Magic Removal Life System. Come on down and we will check FOR FREE is you are good enough for us. Our Magic system is not some mere magic removal. We guarantee your rebirth as a new-born of gender of your choosing in two weeks after your MAGIC PARTY. Why grow old? Why wait for sickness to get you? If you have enough honour points we may consider you in our Celebration that takes place one once a year.
Why use and wait for regular removal system to call you. Be the Captain of your life, take your next life in your hands. Plan what's best for YOU.
Sell the procedure as good enough only or the best with the prize that can't be matched. You don't have enough follower in "magixgram" or followers on "MY Tube"? You are not good enough. Grow old and sick while those better than you will play in their new bodies.
actual new bodies not included, soul transfer is procedure with high risk, newborn people don't speak and they don't remember their previous life. don't ask your doctor of family for consultation, they will only drag you away from this idea because they envy you, you good looking, lucky bastard you
Do you think You're the best?
Do you feel you only deserve the best food, finest women, man, heck even alligators?
Does your taste in music, art and conversation is hard to match?
Well then, maybe You're the one to try our tailored to your specific needs Magic Removal Life System. Come on down and we will check FOR FREE is you are good enough for us. Our Magic system is not some mere magic removal. We guarantee your rebirth as a new-born of gender of your choosing in two weeks after your MAGIC PARTY. Why grow old? Why wait for sickness to get you? If you have enough honour points we may consider you in our Celebration that takes place one once a year.
Why use and wait for regular removal system to call you. Be the Captain of your life, take your next life in your hands. Plan what's best for YOU.
Sell the procedure as good enough only or the best with the prize that can't be matched. You don't have enough follower in "magixgram" or followers on "MY Tube"? You are not good enough. Grow old and sick while those better than you will play in their new bodies.
actual new bodies not included, soul transfer is procedure with high risk, newborn people don't speak and they don't remember their previous life. don't ask your doctor of family for consultation, they will only drag you away from this idea because they envy you, you good looking, lucky bastard you
answered 4 hours ago
SZCZERZO KŁYSZCZERZO KŁY
16.7k22553
16.7k22553
add a comment |
add a comment |
I want to design a way that... keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
The donors must be willing.
They have to do something to indicate their willingness/agreement as part of the ritual or the ritual fails.
People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution.
Let society prevent this, not rules.
Allow it to happen - there are always people who are rule breakers / evil, you world is more believable if you allow it - more 'false' feeling if you prevent it.
add a comment |
I want to design a way that... keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
The donors must be willing.
They have to do something to indicate their willingness/agreement as part of the ritual or the ritual fails.
People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution.
Let society prevent this, not rules.
Allow it to happen - there are always people who are rule breakers / evil, you world is more believable if you allow it - more 'false' feeling if you prevent it.
add a comment |
I want to design a way that... keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
The donors must be willing.
They have to do something to indicate their willingness/agreement as part of the ritual or the ritual fails.
People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution.
Let society prevent this, not rules.
Allow it to happen - there are always people who are rule breakers / evil, you world is more believable if you allow it - more 'false' feeling if you prevent it.
I want to design a way that... keeps it as a limited, voluntary honor that regular citizens use. How can I accomplish this?
The donors must be willing.
They have to do something to indicate their willingness/agreement as part of the ritual or the ritual fails.
People who are looking to get out of debt or poor folks who want to secure stability for their families would look to this as a final solution.
Let society prevent this, not rules.
Allow it to happen - there are always people who are rule breakers / evil, you world is more believable if you allow it - more 'false' feeling if you prevent it.
answered 2 hours ago
J. Chris ComptonJ. Chris Compton
1905
1905
add a comment |
add a comment |
What kind of world and magic is it?
The practitioners need not market it toward the disadvantaged at all. Social pressure may create a harsh reality on its own, just at it does in the real world. However, this harshness may not be endorsed or encouraged by the magicians themselves. Perhaps they believe all sacrifices are purely voluntary, or perhaps they suspect otherwise but continue regardless.
If you can write about a world where this harshness exists, it can add some poignancy to your work. If you do not want to do this, then you must nip the harshness in the bud. But how?
They cope with the harsh reality just as we do. If there is an incentive to pressure poor, sick, and disabled people to volunteer, then it is reasonable for the organization performing the rituals to verify the willingness of each volunteer. They could have moral or political reasons for doing so. The verification could involve standard interrogation techniques, or it could involve magic.
Reality simply does not work that way. The ritual may require a willing participant; coercion or emotional turmoil will cause it to fail. Whether the magicians know in advance that it will fail is also up to you. If they cannot tell for sure, then it may be in their best interests to weed out not-so-willing volunteers---especially if the ritual is costly in any way: personal effort, monetary cost, politics, etc.
It is blasphemous. Donating reishi is more than an honor. It is an act that touches upon the divine. Maybe in truth, or maybe only in the minds of the faithful. Regardless of whether it is truly a divine rite, there is a strong taboo against sullying the practice---especially with selfish motives.
add a comment |
What kind of world and magic is it?
The practitioners need not market it toward the disadvantaged at all. Social pressure may create a harsh reality on its own, just at it does in the real world. However, this harshness may not be endorsed or encouraged by the magicians themselves. Perhaps they believe all sacrifices are purely voluntary, or perhaps they suspect otherwise but continue regardless.
If you can write about a world where this harshness exists, it can add some poignancy to your work. If you do not want to do this, then you must nip the harshness in the bud. But how?
They cope with the harsh reality just as we do. If there is an incentive to pressure poor, sick, and disabled people to volunteer, then it is reasonable for the organization performing the rituals to verify the willingness of each volunteer. They could have moral or political reasons for doing so. The verification could involve standard interrogation techniques, or it could involve magic.
Reality simply does not work that way. The ritual may require a willing participant; coercion or emotional turmoil will cause it to fail. Whether the magicians know in advance that it will fail is also up to you. If they cannot tell for sure, then it may be in their best interests to weed out not-so-willing volunteers---especially if the ritual is costly in any way: personal effort, monetary cost, politics, etc.
It is blasphemous. Donating reishi is more than an honor. It is an act that touches upon the divine. Maybe in truth, or maybe only in the minds of the faithful. Regardless of whether it is truly a divine rite, there is a strong taboo against sullying the practice---especially with selfish motives.
add a comment |
What kind of world and magic is it?
The practitioners need not market it toward the disadvantaged at all. Social pressure may create a harsh reality on its own, just at it does in the real world. However, this harshness may not be endorsed or encouraged by the magicians themselves. Perhaps they believe all sacrifices are purely voluntary, or perhaps they suspect otherwise but continue regardless.
If you can write about a world where this harshness exists, it can add some poignancy to your work. If you do not want to do this, then you must nip the harshness in the bud. But how?
They cope with the harsh reality just as we do. If there is an incentive to pressure poor, sick, and disabled people to volunteer, then it is reasonable for the organization performing the rituals to verify the willingness of each volunteer. They could have moral or political reasons for doing so. The verification could involve standard interrogation techniques, or it could involve magic.
Reality simply does not work that way. The ritual may require a willing participant; coercion or emotional turmoil will cause it to fail. Whether the magicians know in advance that it will fail is also up to you. If they cannot tell for sure, then it may be in their best interests to weed out not-so-willing volunteers---especially if the ritual is costly in any way: personal effort, monetary cost, politics, etc.
It is blasphemous. Donating reishi is more than an honor. It is an act that touches upon the divine. Maybe in truth, or maybe only in the minds of the faithful. Regardless of whether it is truly a divine rite, there is a strong taboo against sullying the practice---especially with selfish motives.
What kind of world and magic is it?
The practitioners need not market it toward the disadvantaged at all. Social pressure may create a harsh reality on its own, just at it does in the real world. However, this harshness may not be endorsed or encouraged by the magicians themselves. Perhaps they believe all sacrifices are purely voluntary, or perhaps they suspect otherwise but continue regardless.
If you can write about a world where this harshness exists, it can add some poignancy to your work. If you do not want to do this, then you must nip the harshness in the bud. But how?
They cope with the harsh reality just as we do. If there is an incentive to pressure poor, sick, and disabled people to volunteer, then it is reasonable for the organization performing the rituals to verify the willingness of each volunteer. They could have moral or political reasons for doing so. The verification could involve standard interrogation techniques, or it could involve magic.
Reality simply does not work that way. The ritual may require a willing participant; coercion or emotional turmoil will cause it to fail. Whether the magicians know in advance that it will fail is also up to you. If they cannot tell for sure, then it may be in their best interests to weed out not-so-willing volunteers---especially if the ritual is costly in any way: personal effort, monetary cost, politics, etc.
It is blasphemous. Donating reishi is more than an honor. It is an act that touches upon the divine. Maybe in truth, or maybe only in the minds of the faithful. Regardless of whether it is truly a divine rite, there is a strong taboo against sullying the practice---especially with selfish motives.
answered 1 hour ago
DoubleDDoubleD
1712
1712
add a comment |
add a comment |
Make it a hard ritual to perform
What you don't want is for this ritual to be banal, so all you need is for it to be a difficult thing to accomplish.
Here's a list of simple things that could make this ritual costly and or time consuming:
- It needs a few very powerful mages to be present (like the very elders of the village/kingdom in question);
- Exotic materials (very rare stuff) must be used;
- Specific time dates (eclipses, moon phases, planet alignment, etc);
- True compliance - meaning the person can't be forced to do it (IMO, giving your life to get out of debt is not valid. One must want this almost as a dream come true);
You can elaborate even better reasons than these. But the point is that the sheer amout of time and resources needed make it so that you can't really do this all the time.
If every single time counts big time, there will be anticipation for such a ritual and great interest from the general population. And that's how you build tradition, honor, etc.
add a comment |
Make it a hard ritual to perform
What you don't want is for this ritual to be banal, so all you need is for it to be a difficult thing to accomplish.
Here's a list of simple things that could make this ritual costly and or time consuming:
- It needs a few very powerful mages to be present (like the very elders of the village/kingdom in question);
- Exotic materials (very rare stuff) must be used;
- Specific time dates (eclipses, moon phases, planet alignment, etc);
- True compliance - meaning the person can't be forced to do it (IMO, giving your life to get out of debt is not valid. One must want this almost as a dream come true);
You can elaborate even better reasons than these. But the point is that the sheer amout of time and resources needed make it so that you can't really do this all the time.
If every single time counts big time, there will be anticipation for such a ritual and great interest from the general population. And that's how you build tradition, honor, etc.
add a comment |
Make it a hard ritual to perform
What you don't want is for this ritual to be banal, so all you need is for it to be a difficult thing to accomplish.
Here's a list of simple things that could make this ritual costly and or time consuming:
- It needs a few very powerful mages to be present (like the very elders of the village/kingdom in question);
- Exotic materials (very rare stuff) must be used;
- Specific time dates (eclipses, moon phases, planet alignment, etc);
- True compliance - meaning the person can't be forced to do it (IMO, giving your life to get out of debt is not valid. One must want this almost as a dream come true);
You can elaborate even better reasons than these. But the point is that the sheer amout of time and resources needed make it so that you can't really do this all the time.
If every single time counts big time, there will be anticipation for such a ritual and great interest from the general population. And that's how you build tradition, honor, etc.
Make it a hard ritual to perform
What you don't want is for this ritual to be banal, so all you need is for it to be a difficult thing to accomplish.
Here's a list of simple things that could make this ritual costly and or time consuming:
- It needs a few very powerful mages to be present (like the very elders of the village/kingdom in question);
- Exotic materials (very rare stuff) must be used;
- Specific time dates (eclipses, moon phases, planet alignment, etc);
- True compliance - meaning the person can't be forced to do it (IMO, giving your life to get out of debt is not valid. One must want this almost as a dream come true);
You can elaborate even better reasons than these. But the point is that the sheer amout of time and resources needed make it so that you can't really do this all the time.
If every single time counts big time, there will be anticipation for such a ritual and great interest from the general population. And that's how you build tradition, honor, etc.
answered 58 mins ago
MagusMagus
2,9441130
2,9441130
add a comment |
add a comment |
Make it like military service
In many cultures people willingly sacrifice themselves (or put their lives on the line) as an honor and duty to serving their country. While to many joining the military is a way to seek a better station or circumstances in life, many also join for duty and honor.
If folks need to donate their reishi for a war or for an end to a drought or some other shared goal, even the wealthy or powerful or famous can feel this desire to sacrifice for the greater good, think Pat Tillman.
In some societies the rulers were almost required to join the military, think England, in order to show that they weren't above doing what they asked of their countrymen.
add a comment |
Make it like military service
In many cultures people willingly sacrifice themselves (or put their lives on the line) as an honor and duty to serving their country. While to many joining the military is a way to seek a better station or circumstances in life, many also join for duty and honor.
If folks need to donate their reishi for a war or for an end to a drought or some other shared goal, even the wealthy or powerful or famous can feel this desire to sacrifice for the greater good, think Pat Tillman.
In some societies the rulers were almost required to join the military, think England, in order to show that they weren't above doing what they asked of their countrymen.
add a comment |
Make it like military service
In many cultures people willingly sacrifice themselves (or put their lives on the line) as an honor and duty to serving their country. While to many joining the military is a way to seek a better station or circumstances in life, many also join for duty and honor.
If folks need to donate their reishi for a war or for an end to a drought or some other shared goal, even the wealthy or powerful or famous can feel this desire to sacrifice for the greater good, think Pat Tillman.
In some societies the rulers were almost required to join the military, think England, in order to show that they weren't above doing what they asked of their countrymen.
Make it like military service
In many cultures people willingly sacrifice themselves (or put their lives on the line) as an honor and duty to serving their country. While to many joining the military is a way to seek a better station or circumstances in life, many also join for duty and honor.
If folks need to donate their reishi for a war or for an end to a drought or some other shared goal, even the wealthy or powerful or famous can feel this desire to sacrifice for the greater good, think Pat Tillman.
In some societies the rulers were almost required to join the military, think England, in order to show that they weren't above doing what they asked of their countrymen.
answered 28 mins ago
Tracy CramerTracy Cramer
1,603713
1,603713
add a comment |
add a comment |
Pay reishi in a different currency and require different accounting for it. The real world analogy is food stamps. Cash you can spend on anything, but reishi must be spent on limited needs of the family, and have government accounting. The person who receives food stamps can then go to the govt to get real cash.
add a comment |
Pay reishi in a different currency and require different accounting for it. The real world analogy is food stamps. Cash you can spend on anything, but reishi must be spent on limited needs of the family, and have government accounting. The person who receives food stamps can then go to the govt to get real cash.
add a comment |
Pay reishi in a different currency and require different accounting for it. The real world analogy is food stamps. Cash you can spend on anything, but reishi must be spent on limited needs of the family, and have government accounting. The person who receives food stamps can then go to the govt to get real cash.
Pay reishi in a different currency and require different accounting for it. The real world analogy is food stamps. Cash you can spend on anything, but reishi must be spent on limited needs of the family, and have government accounting. The person who receives food stamps can then go to the govt to get real cash.
answered 14 mins ago
SRMSRM
16.2k42877
16.2k42877
add a comment |
add a comment |
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2
What is the problem of a "get out of jail" card, even if it could be used as such? Somebody gets sentenced and then they volunteer to be sacrificed. I fail to see that as a big loophole. Somebody in a debt would likely still have a family which would be responsible for said debt. Otherwise they wouldn't be loaned money in the first place - what happens if the person just dies, even if not a sacrifice, with nobody to shoulder the burden?
– vlaz
5 hours ago
1
I am not sure I understand what your goal is here. Are you looking for changes to your described system to prevent people from voluntarily sacrificing themselves? If yes, why not change your system to include some rules to 'the harvesting'? It feels to me that this is too straight forward a thought and so there must be anoyher issue you are looking at, hence I voyed as Unclear.
– dot_Sp0T
5 hours ago
@dot_Sp0T same here. I'm not sure what the problem here is that needs to be solved. Even volunteering to "get out of jail" seems pretty normal and can work for an interesting society. If that's undesirable for whatever reason, as a world builder you can just go "but the sacrifices must be free men" or whatever other qualification to disallow that and work that into the story. Either the gods don't agree, or somebody else, or the society decided to go with that. Whatever - anything can be justified.
– vlaz
5 hours ago
@Incognito So you have problems with the poor being the most numerous human sacrifices, but not with the concept of human sacrifices itself, the idea that persons or societies kill other persons, causing the greatest possible damage to those persons, for their own relatively minor benefit?
– M. A. Golding
50 mins ago
Would I be right in assuming that you want sacrifices to be an act of honor rather than one of desperation? It would answer the questions that @dot_Sp0T and vlaz have raised.
– Alexandre Aubrey
40 mins ago